Ranch Investor Podcast

Your Land, Your Legacy: The Power of Wanting to Help New Landowners

• Ranch Investors • Season 7 • Episode 7

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Join Ken Arthun, owner of Arthun Resources, as he takes you on a journey through the world of land ownership in Montana. With knowledge passed down through four generations of his family ranch, Ken brings extensive experience in water, range, wildlife, and soil management. Along the way, Ken not only uncovers the complexities inherent in land management but also kindles a fresh determination to aid fellow landowners in navigating their unique challenges.

Whether you're a new landowner or a seasoned rancher, listen as this episode aims to inform and inspire.

#RanchInvestor #RanchLand #MontanaRanch #LandManagement #SustainableLandManagement #LivestockDevelopment #RanchWater #SoilManagement

Ken Arthun:

I don't know why in Montana we keep not looking at our greatest asset.

Colter DeVries:

I'm Colter DeVries, accredited land consultant with the Realtor Land Institute and accredited farm manager with American Society of Farm Managers and Rural Appraisers. Thanks for tuning in to the Ranch Investor Podcast.

Ken Arthun:

Ranch Investor Podcast is the most downloaded and informative industry-specific content that intrigues while entertains.

Colter DeVries:

Ken, you didn't need to bring a notepad.

Ken Arthun:

I know, but I was scared, I was going to forget something.

Colter DeVries:

So I thought I better. Well, you're not in the hot seat, so no worries. Here I brought you on to hear what you're up to oh okay. We were shooting the shit a little bit before the recording button got hit and we're catching up on all the old times of Class C basketball in Montana.

Ken Arthun:

Absolutely.

Colter DeVries:

You were telling me about the family's 800, 1200 head operation in the Shields Valley. Yeah, well, that's pretty coveted. Yeah, everyone wants to be in the Shields Valley.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, It's a grassroots organization. Of course, you know, we're the grandson and great-grandson of homesteaders who came from Norway at the turn of the century, and we never had anything to start with.

Colter DeVries:

So and we're for context, we're talking about Charles Bear, who is one of those Montana cattle barons. He actually sheep. He had about a million sheep, that's what they said yeah, a million sheep, and they would run them from, as you mentioned, the Crow Reservation. This had to have been in the late 1800s.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, early 1900s.

Colter DeVries:

Early 1900s they would run them from the Crow all the way up to Meagher County. And for all the Texans wanting to buy an elk hunting ranch in Montana it's Meagher County not Meagher, Irish. But Charles Bear still has the Bear Ranches in the foundation. The Bear family made millions and they contribute to the universities and different scholarships. Very charitable trust at this point.

Colter DeVries:

But one of the original John Duttons of Montana is who Ken Arthun is talking about and Ken Arthun is one of those names you talked about, the homesteader legacy, probably a lot of Norwegian boys, a lot of bachelors to marry off and go start another homestead. So Arthun is one of those names that in Montana where fifth generation Montana like me can hear that you're an Arthun and I'll say, oh, you're either Joliet, Abzorkey or the Shields Valley, kind of like the Simonton's. You know they're Simonson, I know immediately they're from northeast Montana or a Schwinn. I know that they're from Joliet or Bridger. There are just some of those family names and you're one of them.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, yeah, we've been there a long time. I can hardly go anywhere in Montana if I mention my name and people always know You're around someplace like that long enough. People just I don't know they've just. It's just your name precedes you sort of you know, and it's a weird. It's strange, but that's the way it works in Montana.

Colter DeVries:

Well, and that's, that's one of the, the dying legacy, the dying cultures that unfortunately we have to accept, that unfortunately we have to accept we bring up here on the podcast quite a bit. Is you Class C basketball, Shields Valley? Most of your teammates were farmers and ranchers, right. And then you guys would go play little towns like Fromberg and Roberts and you played against some of my uncles and cousins and I don't have any actually uncles you would have played against, but you would have played against some DeVries cousins. And we have that commonality across Montana, from all the way from Ecolac in the southeast, 900 miles northwest, to Eureka and every point in between, and that's dying. That's what do you see there in Meagher County and Wheatland County. In County and Wheatland County, those are because of the mountains there. Those are two highly desirable areas, depending on what side of the mountain someone wants to be on.

Ken Arthun:

in Sweetgrass County, yeah, absolutely, it is totally changing, though I think there's very few, you know total farm and ranch families in the Shields Valley, now Just the homesteaders. Yeah, just just just.

Colter DeVries:

Probably the third plus generation.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, just a handful, and a lot of those places you know have been split out and more are going to be, you know. So it gets less and less every day. But as you were speaking there, it was so cool. We went against one family from, particularly from White Sulphur that my dad played his dad, I played him and my sons played his sons.

Colter DeVries:

Oh, yes, white Sulphur's just down the road.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, it was just quite a rivalry and they were all good friends. It's just what happens in Montana.

Colter DeVries:

You have those rivalries small town, either inner district, when they're just 20, 40 miles down the road, or else when you get to divisionals and they're three hours down the road, and then when you get to state and they're seven hours down the road. But Montana is just one long main street, right.

Ken Arthun:

It sure seems that way. It's just incredible the connections. It just overwhelms me almost every day.

Colter DeVries:

So, like me, you've identified that, hey, I can't fight this. This market is changing. My neighbors are billionaires and cashflow isn't necessarily their primary reason for buying a ranch, as it was for the families that you grew up with had the cash flow that was their existence. So you've identified a need for some local management. Is that correct?

Ken Arthun:

yeah, I just uh. We had the opportunity to uh, to uh, to sell some of our bottom ground to my, so I sold it to the, my brothers, brothers and my cousin, and then we ended up buying a, a place in Plentywood and my son is up there right now on that and and uh. So we've changed that way and uh, and it gave me an opportunity to, to kind of open up my scope a little bit and and uh. That's why I've started a land management consulting deal and it's trying, it's it's to, it's not, it's to help the, the new landowners, kind of to identify their place.

Ken Arthun:

Because you know, having a lifetime in the in the ag background that you know you can see things. Then you grew up knowing things and and the people that are coming in don't necessarily know this. You know they don't know about noxious weeds or or erosion, or soil health or or water development for and so that's why I started the business it's called Arthun Resources and it's to help those people and so that they might have a better buying experience and that their neighbors might have a better experience too from that.

Colter DeVries:

So so because you've seen a few newcomers come in and probably uh, maybe no fault of their own not understand the water rights or the fencing issues. Yeah, totally. And then that could start off on the wrong foot and then it's not too fun for the next many years between neighbors.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, you know I, the saddest thing is that you know us Montanans.

Ken Arthun:

If we have a disagreement, it's it's it's better to stand toe to toe, and and, and you can always work something out. It's just amazing what you can do when you stand toe to toe and communicate, but it seems, and you can always work something out. It's just amazing what you can do when you stand toe to toe and communicate, but it seems the first order of business anymore is is you run everything through a lawyer and God, if you really want to screw things up, that's a great way to do it. So, and and it seemed like it can you can spend millions and accomplish absolutely nothing. We're a, a handshake andhake, and maybe a few thousand dollars would have been all that would have had to change hands. You know, I've seen easements go awry and water rights go awry and about everything imaginable in those terms, and it's just, it's really out of just kind of lack of shared knowledge, and so that's the reason to get together, and a lot of the people don't realize that coming in, but it would be great if they did.

Colter DeVries:

Lack of shared knowledge and granted. Sometimes these agreements for access and water usage and fencing, trailing livestock across someone's place, a lot of times those are verbal and generational. They're not recorded, they're not written, they're not signed, there's been no compensation made. It's usually just friendly handshake agreements on the old dial-up telephones and when the new person comes in that's going to be very problematic, isn't it?

Ken Arthun:

It is, and it has been already. You know to uh to a huge degree and uh, uh, it's just that, um, you know it. It just didn't used to work like that in Montana, but but now it does, you know, and so it would encourage people that you know if they, if they are doing something like that, you know crossing somebody's property would sure be nice to get that in writing. You know, and as things are changing very quickly, and I can relate.

Colter DeVries:

We've had a neighboring 200 irrigated acres sell a couple times in the last 10 years, probably three times, maybe even more. But since we're located in your red lodge there's, you know it's highly desirable. There's going to be some turnover if people aren't committed for the long term and our place obviously is, and one other neighbor is generational long term and we've had this water usage unwritten, unrecorded agreement between the three ditch owners. That so our 120 inches. You know we use minor inches in Montana and a lot of places in Montana, so we have 120, the neighbor has 200, the other neighbor has about 100. So one neighbor is fairly dominant, right, they have more and that's the place that's turned over a couple times.

Colter DeVries:

And the way we irrigate up there is that you take the full ditch for three days, then you pass it and they get the full ditch for three days and it's not the legal way. I mean you should be able. You have a right to access your 200 inches anytime you want and that is your 200 inches. But the way that those fields irrigate in that growing season, in the crop being used grass you want to flood it and the soils, there's a reason that you want to put all 600 inches down at once, 600 inches down at once, and so that's. That's always been the the uh agreement between the unwritten, unrecorded agreement.

Colter DeVries:

And every time a new person buys that place next to us, we have to educate them. Hey, we understand that you have the right to access your 200 inches anytime you want, and we should get a box and we should separate that. Here's the reason why we don't do that. And they, they have heartburn over it at first. The most, most newcomers have don't like farmer agreements. They don't. They. You know one thing can they might think that us good old boy neighbors are trying to screw them. We're trying to pull, pull the bowl over their eyes and pull one on them. They, they might think we're trying to screw them, but they soon do realize there's a reason, a method behind the madness, and it's mainly driven by the soil and the crop. But it just takes, you know, continuing communication.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, in a situation like that, a lot of times water's lost in conveyance too. So if you don't have the whole thing, you can get absolutely nothing done, and so, like you said, it's a compromise move. But it's hard to spring that on somebody that's not familiar with that system of neighboring, I guess.

Colter DeVries:

Yeah, and another one is every time that changes hand, the last owner is behind on their ditch maintenance. And, granted, someone just stepped in and they bought a 1.5 million dollar place and you tell them oh, by the way, you owe 800 bucks for his ditch maintenance. Oh they, they get their panties in a bunch. They're just so upset about 800 bucks on 1.5 million. I shouldn't have to pay. That that was his, it's like. Well, we're never going to get it from him if. If you want your water, it's 800 bucks.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, there's a lot, lot in water conveyance. My uncle was a pro at making sure the water got to the point of attack, and so I learned a lot from my uncle about as far as clean ditches and how to get the water from the pond or the stream bed to the to the field.

Colter DeVries:

It makes a huge difference well comment on that, because there's another. There's another cultural paradigm where you and I look at ranches and we see water for irrigation and livestock use. The new buyers in Meagher, you're saying do I have enough water? Here is the point of diversion, such that I can put up ponds. And I want to build ponds and I want to change the channel, I want to change the point of diversion. And then, going back to our little dispute on the East Bench near Red Lodge, I want my water all year long. And how do you feel about? I mean, I guess you and I just we just have to accept it and say, hey, this is the world we live in and you know we got to make a living too. So if they want water for ponds or amenity ponds, how have you been handling that?

Ken Arthun:

Well, you know, we've been around. It's kind of amazing you brought that up because we've we've been kind of suffering from pond overdose, overdose, but but uh, yeah, and they're, they're, uh, I, uh, I do know that that the that the dnrc is allowing now water for ponds and they are recognizing that. So really, there is, there isn't a lot a guy can do uh with that, but I do know that uh, that uh, uh, in the future it's going to come up more and more often and I'm close enough to the Bozeman area that I know it's just been a horror story over there.

Colter DeVries:

The neighboring state of Bozeman?

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, the neighboring state of Bozeman with ponds, because it seemed like everybody builds a pond, whether sometimes they were able to just, you know, dig in the ground and you're kind of exposing the water, you know what I mean. The groundwater then, which I seemed like to me when you do that, and a lot of those ponds, like toward Gateway, they're fed by irrigation ditches that leak, so they kind of dry up in the summer or dry up in the wintertime, and then here they come in the summertime and I know my brother and sister have a place over there and one of the neighbors there decided to build their on a ditch that was conveying through him. They just built their pond right on this ditch. So the sad news is that there is no enforcement division of the dnrc, so so then you have to fight that in court so you may not have your like. In his case he lost his water for the year because he had to fight that and to get that, you know, his ditch conveyed around the pond and onto his property. So it's a kind of continual nightmare.

Ken Arthun:

That is a Montana. It's going to get a lot worse actually in the Western part of Montana and that's why, like with my business. I would hope to address that and tell people what what they can do and what they can't do. You know and I think that there's a lot of misinformation it seemed like I don't know when they buy this piece, nobody's taught it, told them anything. Well, a lot of times they've came from area where they even know nothing about water or nothing about water rights, and so they just put in a pond and and then then there's just great disappointment afterwards that they can't fill their pond and they've spent a bunch of money for nothing. And that's one of the reasons I started my company to try to help those people, so they don't do that.

Colter DeVries:

A little bit of consulting goes a long way, I think so. Just a little bit of local knowledge and advice can keep you out of an attorney pickle. And then another thing before it gets to the attorneys, why not practice mediation? Let's get another third party, independent, third objective opinion in here and let's find a way to work this out without having to take it to the district court.

Ken Arthun:

Absolutely. Yeah, I don't. It's just sad that you know, like I say, the DNRC has. We've entered into several water right arrangements, but they don't have any teeth. Water right arrangements and but they don't have any teeth. I mean there's, they don't, they don't have an enforcement division, so he can come to the best damn agreement in the world but you can't enforce it.

Colter DeVries:

So we don't want them to have no I know I would rather they were uh, castrated to the highest level.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, yeah but I'm just saying it's hard to manage. You know you make an agreement and yet there's nobody to oversee the agreement.

Colter DeVries:

Well, it starts with the water, commissioner.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah.

Colter DeVries:

And well, it starts with the private parties property rights agreement between parties, and then the commissioner can weigh in. Commissioner can weigh in and then, if, if he can't figure out the resolution and educate both parties to why it is what it is and how it's going to be what it's going to be, then it should go to district court, right, and, and you should have your local representatives uh, locally elected judge, weigh in on it, right. And if it takes a locally uh assigned jury pool, they're going to find people like you who are of that local area to weigh in on this property rights, this landowner dispute. And the last thing we need is Montana becomes more absentee owned, more tourist occupied. I would consider someone who's a seven-year hold visits for four weeks of the year at best.

Colter DeVries:

I mean, that's, that's a form of tourism, right absolutely you're not vested, you're not committed to the long term, but we want to keep that out of the water court and out of the state's hands, because the state, inevitably, they want control, they want your water rights, they wanna tell you how it's gonna happen.

Ken Arthun:

It's been in the news the last few, last several weeks, there have been a development, and they're stopping the development over there because of lack of water. And that's going to court.

Colter DeVries:

Uh, you know, I think it's on bill's place there, so bill galt is one of the largest landowners in montana and him and my dad are taking up this issue. I don't know if you've

Colter DeVries:

Well, enough about my chatter, tell me, tell me how this change has been. Has it been? I mean, it's been slow, right, it's been happening for 30 years. Ted Turner, I think he, bought his first Montana ranch in the late 80s, which is when I was born. So I can say, like you know, I don't know the era that you grew up in yeah, I've always been part of this absentee ownership. You could say.

Ken Arthun:

Right, exactly in. Yeah, I've always been part of this absentee ownership. You could say, right exactly I. I grew up when it was. It was like like when we bought that place in plenty, what I keep telling everybody it's the greatest place in the world. It's like going back and we'll sell 30 years ago because all the old farmers and ranchers are on the farms and ranch and then in will sell. It's totally not the case anymore. It's uh, very few of the family ranchers are that are left there and you, you learn, you lose a lot of community with.

Ken Arthun:

I mean those, it seemed like those lifetime guys are so vested in the community that they are just I mean you can't even describe it. You, there's just this. It's beyond reproach, you just can't do it. It there's just it's beyond reproach, you just can't do it. I mean it's just like those Plentywood people. You know If there's a funeral they're all there. You know what I mean it's like and that's the way it used to be in Willisville. I'm not saying that it's not that way still in Willisville, because people have really worked hard to keep it that way, but it's the people that have been around a while. I'm not saying some of the newer people haven't tried really hard because they have, but but I'm just saying it, it's a sense of community that you kind of lose through all this. You know I go into the if I go to the bank bar after 10 o'clock I won't know a soul in there. You know it's crazy. You know I used to know everybody in there in the bank bar or you know it's crazy.

Colter DeVries:

You know I used to know everybody in there in the bank bar or White Sulphur Springs on opening day of rifle season.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, exactly Insane, but it has really changed a lot. I mean, it started kind of when I was more in high school and that's kind of when you'd see it in the 70s, and since then it's kind of slowly, you know, as the ranch would go out, you know. Know it was just enough that was kind of out of egg range for trying to purchase it. You know, and uh, I think the last big land deal we did was was in the oh we, I guess we bought land all the way up to to current. But the last huge deals we did were in the 70s and right before right late 70s, and then the interest rates went to hell and we got, we got, I think in 1971 we got 96 cents for the steer calves and and 19 the next year. We got 27 cents for the steers and we couldn't sell the heifers. So, oh, my goodness oh man that was.

Ken Arthun:

We went in and then then the interest rate started up into the 20 percent. So so we got welcome to the world of debt right in a hurry, you know.

Colter DeVries:

Yeah, so I'm not. I'm not the only one who has that story of buying high and selling low.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, it's been going on the egg world forever. So yeah, and we keep doing it. We're consistent. We'll do it again tomorrow.

Colter DeVries:

Yeah, that's right, but you weather the times and you weather the difficulties because your life depends on it. I mean, there is no outside income, there is no additional family wealth backing you, and you just got to cut costs and live thin like a coyote jackrabbit.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, and people, all of our suppliers, all wonder why we're so. We're tight, so tight with our money.

Colter DeVries:

Well, that's the only way we can cut costs absolutely try to make the best deals you know so yeah, I, I can recall my grandpa calling probably five or six different tire shops between pal wyoming and belgrade montana, oh, absolutely Looking to save 50 bucks on a tractor tire.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, no, that's right, that's what we do. That's what we do, you know, and people think we're, like I said, thrifty, tight, whatever, but I mean, it's the only way you can save money.

Colter DeVries:

So what's your business called? It's Arthun Resources. Arthun Resources, yeah, and you were part of the Ringling Five. Yeah, barely, that sounds like organized crime syndication.

Ken Arthun:

It pretty much was yeah.

Colter DeVries:

That sounds like something that would be on a Netflix documentary.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, it should have been. Yeah, it was 40-some years of craziness. No, it was a wonderful deal.

Colter DeVries:

What is the Ringling Five?

Ken Arthun:

Well, I don't know it started out. You know well, for starters it was my cousin Les, my brother Ron and myself. So there's three Arthuns in the group and Larry Lovely, which I started Sunday school with when I was five. And so people asked us well, how long have you guys been singing together? I said, well, golly, ever since I was in Sunday school when I was five. You know, because that's all we did in Sunday school. We didn't have a lesson, we just sang, so it was a great kind of like a homeschool band. Yeah, pretty much. And so then we had a couple of tremendous music teachers Mrs Blinn in high school and Mr Arthun.

Ken Arthun:

Oh yeah, and uh and uh, and then we really didn't do anything with it. Larry Lovely always had a band, and then then, I don't know, we came home from college, we're all MSU, uh, go cats guys, and uh and uh. We came home from school and, um, I don't know, uh, a honky tonk piano player. We'd have some special events around and she'd want us to write a song for that or sing a song. So we started singing some songs and then we started writing some songs and then then that led to a whole lot of craziness, you know. So I mean thousands Well, I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of miles 2000 shows.

Colter DeVries:

Every mint bar and Stockman bar in Montana. Pretty much there are many mints and stockmans yeah.

Ken Arthun:

If you sang in , you've sang about everywhere in Montana, and we did so.

Colter DeVries:

Tell me more about your services, which I assume does not include performing as the Ringling Five on the ranch.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, no, as far as my business services, we start out with range management. So we do a species identification, species analysis, and we do some range plots, gps plots, and away from the waterways, people, you know they always, you know it's. You know waterways or livestock developments for water, you know they're gonna. You know animals are lazy and they're always gonna pound that grass and so you want to get your plots up away from that. So that's what we do.

Ken Arthun:

And then we we actually clip and weigh those plots and then we photograph them and and then you, we have a precip factor we add into that and then then you can actually measure the range and and take pictures. And then it's for, it's for people that don't know and understand and and uh, you know you're not going to explain it much to you know an old, old, old time ranch guy, but for some of these newer people coming in it it gives them some actually proof that what we're looking at and we do a species, species analysis of the wildlife and uh, and they can you know, you can you know I've seen them a lot of uh, food plots potting put in and and I haven't. And uh, one of the newer landowners the shields just put in several hundred acres and and wanted to, you know, entice the elk in for hunting season. But the elk had it eaten up mid-summer.

Colter DeVries:

So so you know there's a lot to be learned for that maybe think about some warm season plants that last longer through the fall, right.

Ken Arthun:

Or they'd actually in that situation you'd have to fence them off, you know. And then we've done a ton of water development on our place pipelines, spring development I think I've developed at least 30 springs myself with a backhoe and one helper and and so we have a have had a ton of experience do that, and and I was part of the shields watershed group and we've done some, some restoration work on the shields and been able to see how that's worked out for people and and generally, if it's good for the ruminant, it's good for the ungulate yeah, that's right, that's right spring and pipeline and cross fencing and riparian habitat.

Colter DeVries:

You're going to do that. I mean today's owner is going to do that for the wildlife right and for the amenity value, but it does improve the livestock operation, which then improves the soil, the grasses, the species, which then improves the wildlife oh, tremendously.

Ken Arthun:

It's just you can't be enough, said. Like I was telling you earlier, you know they, they have a tendency the livestock and game will have a tendency to, you know, stay on the water when it gets hot in the summertime, and the the more water developments, the more you can scatter the animals and and it's a win-win deal for everything and everybody, every species out there.

Colter DeVries:

So so that's fantastic, so yeah yeah, that that makes me also think about these, the new buyer set, which try not to have a value judgment upon everyone's free right, exactly free, exactly our own dream.

Colter DeVries:

This is America, yeah we get to pursue what we want. We have private property rights and it's a beautiful thing to chase your dream, and a lot of these people are chasing their dreams, so I definitely don't want to come across like I'm shaming anyone, but they do lack. They lack insight into basic resource management and in particular, I'm thinking about weeds. Oh boy, weeds is a big one. I come across when showing a place and they're looking at the view, they're looking at the, the ponderosa pines, they're looking for elk. They're not looking down at the feet, seeing, oh, this is napweed, or this is ventanada, or spurge, leafy spurge, and then, in the event that it, well, I've been on showings where they, you know, call, call leafy spurge and spotted knapweed a pretty flower, right, purple pretty flower and purple or yellow pretty flower plants and it's like, no, those are noxious weeds.

Colter DeVries:

And oh, okay, it's actually. You should be like do you want to think of a plan how to control that, how to knock it out, cause that's kind of your obligation, or you know? Going back to community, Right, exactly you take care of your side of the fence, make sure your side of the street is clean. Your neighbor's going to do the same. Yeah, exactly, Especially if you're committed for the longterm you're vested.

Ken Arthun:

Yep, you can't, you can't say enough about that. I mean, as far as you, just you can't be a pain in all your neighbor's rear end because you know you think it's a flower, not a weed, because it's, you know it's going to not only take over the neighbor but it might you know, might take over the public ground next to the neighbor, government ground.

Colter DeVries:

Yes, I don't do we don't use the word public ground on this podcast the public does not have rights to shit on government. The government owns it, the public does not yeah, they keep taking away.

Ken Arthun:

You know what they say is, and then they'll.

Colter DeVries:

They'll say there's public access, but then they'll take it away in five years well, if you think you own it, mr public Landowners out there with your nifty little shirts and bumper stickers, just go set up a house and actually set up a tent and try to be there for four weeks, be left alone and, furthermore, harbor something in that tent and see if the government needs a warrant to enter your tent on these quote-unquote public lands.

Ken Arthun:

Iress, ken, we're talking about your business no, no, totally, yeah, no problem, no problem. No, it's very true, it's very true. So, all the above, so we were talking about responsible resource management.

Colter DeVries:

What goes into that?

Ken Arthun:

well, it's like you said. It's noxious weed control, it's it's water development, uh, soil health, uh, you hear a lot about uh, rejuvenation and soil health and and you know you can do a ton for that. Uh, one time I uh I get so sick of when it rains three or four tents or five tents in our little valley. The rivers and the streams instantly turn brown. They instantly turn brown. So one day I said, my God, I'm so sick of this and I thought I'm just going to get. I got on my four-wheeler. I said I'm just going to follow and see where this starts. And I started at my place and I went up into the hills behind my house and where it actually was coming from was an old growth fir on north slopes, because there's absolutely nothing growing under those old growth fir trees. It's absolutely, totally bare ground. So it's old growth fir and it rains just a doodle. If it runs at all, then it's going to run into those streams.

Ken Arthun:

So we I don't know why in Montana we keep not looking at our greatest asset. It starts with the soil and people do not understand that, and the and the Forest Service, I don't know they haven't done anything about it. So they obviously don't know, or sure? Um don't seem to know anything about that and I think that on government land I think that there's they actually don't log the waterways and I was thinking that would be. The best thing to do would be to log the waterways and have grass filter strips so it could stop some of that soil before it gets into the stream, rather than, you know, letting that old growth fur grow right into the waterway. So I know I could be wrong on this deal. I'm not totally familiar with it. Maybe you know more, Colter.

Colter DeVries:

It generally comes down to encouraging a good root layer right, right In the soil. And how do you do that? You use root ruminants, right, and the natural progression of timberland environments, which includes fire Right, includes thinning Right. It includes rest rotations and changing season of use, right. And, yeah, I mean, you look at these ponderosa pine and dug fir areas and unfortunately, cheatgrass is pretty prevalent and cheatgrass is going to dry out earlier. So, as you mentioned, three-tenths of a rain, three-tenths of an inch rainstorm, there's no grass there holding onto that soil, so it will sediment, uh, sediment the waterways, unfortunately. And that's why, uh, the public doesn't own shit, because the public should be out there solving it. They should get out there and start rotating cows and sheep around a little better and spraying. But that's the government's responsibility. They own it and their hands are always tied through administrations.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, absolutely. It is amazing that you'd actually you can do. You can do more with grazing animals than you can do without them and people don't you know, I guess they're all into worrying about cow farts right now, but it's just amazing actually. And you talk about we had some land leased in the south of Livingston higher mountain property, and the landowner was always worried about fire danger. And I'm going, my God, we had 400 cows up there and I said we got the best wild 400 cows up there. And I said, well, we got the best, the best wildlands fire preventers in the world right here and just start around your house and kind of hit that a little harder and work yourself around. But it seemed like common sense knowledge.

Ken Arthun:

I know it's just amazing how we, how we sometimes forget what cattle can actually do for a place. You know wildland fire prevention, all the way to just simply grass management and you know reseeding the grass. And you know our philosophy was always, you know, unless it was a complete drought year to you know, take half, leave half, and that way you can kind of get you through the dry years, unless you get three or four stacked on each other and and on the wet years you look like a king, you know. So you don't have to use the grass.

Colter DeVries:

so well, given this is the ranch investor podcast. You're one of those families who took a beautiful mountain western Montana ranch and you expanded to eastern Montana. Tell me what went into that well it was.

Ken Arthun:

It was a long process.

Colter DeVries:

We probably it probably took five or six years and we did a 1031 and so you capitalized on those incredible land values in western Montana and grew your operation in the east where dollar per acre, dollar per animal unit was more favorable right, exactly, and we, uh, and we and we sold as my brother and cousin, so we were able to keep that in the family, and so so we just look at it as growing the homestead.

Ken Arthun:

now that's a weird way to look at it, but but I think of it, think of it as that, and, uh, and if I'd have sold to some outsider, I wouldn't be able to sleep with myself and I Now that's a weird way to look at it, but I think of it as that and if I'd have sold to some outsider, I wouldn't have been able to sleep with myself and I would have been talking out of both sides of my mouth on this podcast. But we didn't do that and we're able to keep it in-house and very thankful for that. And they all speak to me at home still, so that's a great thing too.

Ken Arthun:

You can still go to the Mint and the stockman right, right, and somebody will still buy me a drink, and so that's a good thing. But but, uh, yeah, we were and we had some friends up there and my, my daughter, actually married into the family kind of up in plentywood too, and so, uh, we looked for a place for years and actually went door to door up there. To be honest with you, my son and he had a good college friend, and that's kind of how that all started, and so we were patient. And finally, word of mouth, we heard about this place, the old Nash Brothers place. There was actually an old New Holland dealership there in Redstone Montana, and so they own most of the town and and so it got we, we have most of the town was about three lots.

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, three lots yeah, and a bunch of bunch of broken down buildings, but then then but we bought the farm with that, so it was a historic place too, and in fact Mrs Nash just died she was 97 years old just a few weeks ago and it was important to them that it's sold to a family. You know what I mean. So my son's up there and took his three daughters and wife up there and they're making plenty of money at home.

Colter DeVries:

Well, as we wrap this up, I want to hear a little more about your services and how people can get in touch with you. Where can they find you? How do they contact you?

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, well, I just want to say we have. You know, I've dealt with a lot of family issues over the years too, and people I was. I was on the school board for 12 years and the farm credit board for 12 years, and so I have a lot of experience with people. And in fact, I think the last school board election I ran unopposed and I think of the 246 votes I got 220, some, and I thought, my God, if you can be on the school board for 12 years and only piss off 20 people, I thought I must've done a hell of a job. And so I, anyhow, I I I think that that I can provide a lot of the services that I spoke about earlier. Plus, I have a lot of family experience and people experience and and I've always, you know, like you said, mediation would be way better than you know. Getting to the court system, I mean, the court system is there. I guess, if you, like you said, you know if you have some water issues you have to address, but it sure is nice to settle things toe-to-toe sometimes and that's sometimes, I think, what's most lost in this land. Transferring to this the newer Montanans, you know. So I think I can provide that too.

Ken Arthun:

So I have a website. It's arthunresources. com. A-r-t-h-u-n. Yeah, u-n, yeah, resourcecom. And I'll give my number too. It's 406-220-1556. So that's my phone number.

Colter DeVries:

Well, I appreciate you coming on the podcast and giving your perspective. We certainly don't see the Wilkes brothers on school boards, do we?

Ken Arthun:

Yeah, for sure we don't. And as part of Montana, you probably won't see again.

Colter DeVries:

No, no, this is in the rear view, and guys like you and I are trying to figure out how to add value looking through the windshield.

Ken Arthun:

Absolutely, and thank you, coulter, very much for having me on. It's been great chatting with you and, like you say, your name is so familiar too and it's so cool to see that Montana Just the coolest thing.

Colter DeVries:

Well, Ken Arthun arthunresources. com, thanks for coming on the ranch investor podcast.

Ken Arthun:

It's been a pleasure thank you very much again, coulter click subscribe on your streaming platform, so you know when the latest episode has dropped.